About this Show

Anderson Cooper 360

News/Business. (2011) New.

NETWORK
CNN

DURATION
02:00:00

RATING

SCANNED IN
San Francisco, CA, USA

SOURCE
Comcast Cable

TUNER
Port 50000

VIDEO CODEC
mpeg2video

AUDIO CODEC
mp2

PIXEL WIDTH
720

PIXEL HEIGHT
480

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Boehner 50, Us 29, John Boehner 27, America 17, Harry Reid 17, United States 12, Washington 12, Anderson 10, U.s. 9, Nancy Pelosi 9, Steny Hoyer 7, Texas 6, Joe Walsh 6, Ron Paul 6, Jeff Toobin 5, Jessica Yellin 5, Volkswagen 4, Hoyer 4, John 4, John King 4,
Borrow a DVD
of this show
  CNN    Anderson Cooper 360    News/Business.  (2011) New.  

    July 28, 2011
    7:00 - 9:00pm PDT  

7:00pm
growth again. and this year latin america is going to growth as the whole of the region over 5%. that's incredible. and that's the same thing that is happening in nations. that's what we see in those economies. why? because they think about the present and they think about the future. >> been a real pleasure. thank you very much. >> a pleasure to be with you. >> that's all for us tonight. now here's anderson cooper with "anderson cooper 360" breaking news tonight. what a night it is. if you look closely at the capitol you can almost make out beads of sweat on the dome. it is nothing compared to how hard house speaker john boehner must be sweating it. how hard he's working and so far failing to get his own republicans to vote for a debt reduction bill. his debt reduction bill. >> the bill's not perfect. i never said it was perfect. nobody in my caucus believes it's perfect. but what this bill reflects is a sincere, honest effort to end this crisis in a bipartisan way,
7:01pm
to send it to the senate where it can receive action. >> well, the vote was scheduled for yesterday, rescheduled for early this evening and then put on hold again so the leadership could wrangle votes. they're going that literally as we speak. still promising a vote sometime tonight. we'll be live when it hams. yesterday speaker boehner told the troops to "get their asses in line". apparently not enough republicans have, and now his credibility is on the line. most of the opposition coming from tea party supporters, raw, open, direct rebellion. >> we want to make sure we never get here again. i want to support something that makes sure we never get here again. >> the deal that is on the table makes the hole deeper. and so don't -- you shouldn't expect people who believe that we should balance the budget to vote for a deal that makes the hole deeper. >> i can't support this plan. i would love to be able to support speaker boehner, leader cantor. i have to have something that transcends election cycles. i can't support it. >> well, over on the democratic-controlled senate
7:02pm
side, they are waiting to get a house bill simply so they can vote no on it. then, experts say, the real bargaining could begin on some kind of compromise that both the house and senate might agree on. but now that is on hold. and the stakes keep rising. the dow industrials lost another 62 points today. a lot of ground for us to cover tonight with chief white house correspondent jessica yellin, chief national correspondent john king, host of john king usa and chief political analyst gloria borger. where do we stand right now, john? >> we stand right now that they've ordered pizza in speaker boehner's office. they've been shut ling around the house republican leadership office trying to get two or three more votes. you showed some tea party freshmen right there. what speaker boehner thought earlier in the day he was making progress getting some their colleagues and he thought he would get to the finish line. just before the scheduled vote they realized they were still a few short. so he's trying to convince them to come aboard. there's some talk tonight he's trying to sweeten and change the bill a little bit. we don't have any details to get
7:03pm
them on board. here's how we stand tonight. he's short the votes. they still say it will come tonight. this is a major credibility test for the speaker of the house. >> and gloria, what happened. because as john said it did look like things were moving in the direction of speaker boehner earlier today. >> i think you saw from that interview you ran before that john did with these freshmen. he ran up against freshmen ho don't owe him anything, anderson. they were elected outside of the establishment. and honestly, a lot of them don't care if they get re-elected. they believe they were sent to congress to make government smaller and to cut the deficit. and this is what they intend to do. and they believe that boehner bill is not strong enough because they understand that at some point there's going to have to be a compromise, so they want the house to have the strongest possible bargaining position that it can have. and so they're willing to buck the speaker. and this, as john said, is a
7:04pm
huge test, almost a referendum on the speakership. >> jessica, in terms of what's happening in the white house tonight? >> well, they're waiting. after the acrimony of the last week it would almost be satisfying to see what's happening so speaker boehner today. but every minute they're waiting we'rer to a -- we're closer to a default. they want to get this vote behind them and move on to the senate where they feel they have a better chance of reaching a compromise the white house can live with. this is just dragging on and on. so they just want this vote to be over with so that they can move on to the next thing. >> if you could just explain that to folks at home. it is kind of confusing. you're saying people in the senate are basically just waiting for this boehner bill to comment it's going to die in the senate. and then what happens? >> the idea is that either the boehner bill dies in the house and you can move onto the senate where there is harry reid, the democrat runs the senate.
7:05pm
and he can cut a deal, the thinking is, the thinking is the democrat who runs the senate can cut a deal with mitch mcconnell, the republican number two there, that white house could live with. and the idea is that together maybe they could forge a compromise that could get through the senate and could go back over to the house of representatives and maybe they could jam the house of representatives, send it over to them at the very last minute because the clock would be ticking down. the thinking is maybe they would be forced to vote yes and it would get done at the very last minute. that's the democrats' ideal best case scenario. who knows if it would happen. >> john, how much of this is about democrats and republicans not wanting to get blamed or wanting to get credit? >> well, right now they want to plant their flag. and as jessica just said a fabulous statement that sums up where we are tonight. thinking that maybe. nobody is sure. nobody is sure in washington. we usually know where these things are heading. and we know they'll be posturing. we know the republicans have to make a point, the democrats have to make a point and then you have a sense of where it's going. we have a general sense of what
7:06pm
a final deal could look like. what we don't have tonight is any proof the people who have to make it are willing to make it and can round up the votes to support it. speaker boehner wants to lay down his marker. he knows it can't pass the senate. speaker reid -- only when they get past their rituals will we get a real negotiation. the problem is this vote goes hours into the night. now the senate vote is pushed back after that, probably tomorrow, maybe into the weekend. and there's a funny date on the calendar called august 2nd at which something bad is going to happen. are they exaggerating how bad? who knows? we've never done this before. but something bad is going to happen. and it could cost somebody probably not a social security check but it might cost some family whose son or daughter, husband or wife is in iraq or afghanistan, might cost them their check if we get three or four or of six days past august 2nd. >> i heard you say earlier we're seeing a generational divide in the house right now, the results of a generational divide. >> no question in the republican
7:07pm
party there's a huge generational divide. as gloria just noted, a lot of these 87 freshmen, they're not career politicians. they were car dealers, maybe they were prosecutors. some of them were farmers. they don't feel bebeholden to the speaker. they think the people telling them to compromise are the people who built the pile of debt, the miss we're in right now. they don't truss them. remember a lot of people are making fun of them. a lot of people say these crazy tea party party. why won't they compromise? they won the last election. the last time america spoke they sent these people to washington. so they think that's what they were sent here to do. now, maybe the public's changed its mind. maybe the president and democrats have convinced them otherwise. but they just in november won an election in which they promised to do pretty much what they're doing right now. >> gloria, it seems when you talk to some of them, they don't care necessarily about being re-elected. >> no, they don't. >> which is actually kind of refreshing i've got to say. >> well it is.
7:08pm
but compromise is the way things get done in washington. and it shouldn't be a dirty word, i don't think. maybe. but i understand that they're standing on principle. but they're also standing on the precipice of something, that is the nation going into default. you can argue politicians arguing different points of view here. but at a certain point decisions are going to have to be made about which checks go out and which checks don't go out and the downgrading of our triple a status and on and on. and at a certain point, i think what's going to happen here, quite honestly, is if a bill passes the house and a bill passes the senate, then the people can negotiate behind the scenes. and i think what we're going to end up with is a bill in the house that's going to need moderate democratic support because those freshmen republicans will probably not vote for the final version. i mean, it's kind of ironic we're focusing on them now. but it's going to be the
7:09pm
moderates who are going in the house, moderate democrats who are going to end up having to get this thing through. and the same thing with moderate republicans in the senate. >> so john, right now you have house speaker boehner where, in his office on the phone? can you paint the picture of what's going on? i know eric cantor went to his office recently. >> they were in the speaker's office. then they went to the whip's office. the whip is congressman kevin mccar think. then back to the speaker's office. essentially they're calling in some of these nos, the people who have said no and saying we need your votes. this is a list the democrats put out. there's 24 names here of house republicans who have said they would vote no. the democrats essentially saying if they flip-flop, if they change their mind we're going to beat them up in the next campaign. you have a huge policy question of enormous domestic economic -- international economic consequence and there's a lot of politics going on in the middle of it right now. the speaker as you mentioned the top of the show, just yesterday
7:10pm
he said "get your asses in line". this is about me now, my credibility, my leverage with the president of the united states. in this argument, in the next argument and in the one after that. if john baine loses -- boehner loses this vote tonight after he has to reschedule it, it will be a huge repudiation from his party. he understands the consequence of this vote and he's going to stay there until he figures out how to get there. >> that poses something of a challenge for the white house too if john boehner should lose this vote. they still need speaker boehner to have some measure of power. because if a compromise bill gets through the senate it will go back to the house of representatives. and they need the speaker of the house to be empowered enough to get it through the house of representatives in the end. and they don't want a speaker who is so weakened that he can't push this bill through. even as gloria says, you need democrats to get it through definitely but you still need a speaker who's em powered enough to get the bill done in the end. >> it's fascinating and i think
7:11pm
forea lot of folks infuriating to watch this unfold at this late hour. this tea party rebellion, we'll talk to our correspondents all throughout the hour. john talked about this as kind of a generational divide in the republican party. it's not exclusively generational. you'll hear from congressman ron paul. he doesn't believe the baiper bill goes far enough or cuts deep enough. some don't think we should raise the deficit at all. some, congressman paul included downplay what this will do. they say they're doing what the voters told them to do. >> i will not be casting my vote for that bill. i cannot. i am committed to not raising the debt ceiling. i don't believe for a moment that we will lose the full faith and credit of the united states. >> we know in august our government's going to have plenty of revenues to service our debt, take care of our military and take care of our senior citizens. >> i love my speaker. and i have deep respect for our leadership. but i just feel so strongly about this, and i think i'm
7:12pm
trying to do what's right for the american people. >> politically we're told, gee, this is the political thing to do. you've got to do the political thing. if you don't vote for the boehner bill you're voting for obama. that's not true. >> congressman louie gohmert of texas who went into a meeting with speaker boehner's office saying he'd been called to the principal's office. when he came out he still said he was voting no. >> congressman, you're not willing to support the boehner bill at this point. why? >> well, it raises the debt limit. i've made too many promises i wouldn't raise the debt limit. i've never voted for the appropriation bill and i've been worried about our spending for many, many years if not decades. so i think that would only encourage people to spend more money. if debt is the problem, raising the debt limit by $2.4 billion, i don't see how it can be a solution. >> you talk about obviously the principles behind your not supporting it. is part of your thinking though
7:13pm
also politics of what happens to the bill in the senate and what happens after that? >> no. i think that's sort of not much of my concern. that's what most of what's going on here is all the politics. i've heard that they already know what they'll finally come out of this, but they have to go up to the last minute to see who gets blamed for whatever and see who can get the best edge. but i think the leaders have more or less agreed on something to raise the debt limit. >> you think regardless of what you vote, regardless of whether or not the boehner bill moved forward tonight that debt limit will still be raised? >> yes. one way or the other, yes. we're going to raise it. they will not default by not paying the bills. governments our size and in this much debt always default in a different manner. the default has to come. but they'll default by paying the bills off with bad money. so we're constantly defaulting. and we've done this over many, many years. >> you talk about the politics that are happening among other people on capitol hill right
7:14pm
now. for folks who are watching at home, they see this, a lot of people see this as just pure politics going back and forth. can you explain? what is happening there right now? what are the politics behind all this? >> well, i'm not an insider. i don't know the exact details. >> you're a congressman. you're pretty much an insider, aren't you? >> yeah. but i'm not in john boehner's office. he doesn't ask me my opinion. but what my opinion is is that they're trying to find out who's going to get blame and who's going to get credit because they know they have to achieve something. >> what do you make of what's going on with the gop, though? what does it say about john boehner as speaker of the house or about -- who's in charge of the republican party if john boehner the speaker of the house can't wrangle his own members? >> well, i think he has a tough job. he has a lot of new members. so even though i disagree with his answers and his programs, i sort of have a bit of sympathy for him trying to put them all together an get something
7:15pm
passed. but just think of what happened to paul ryan. he made a proposal and he got barbed pretty badly. so boehner still has to put up with the senate and the president and goes back and forth. it's in many ways just a power struggle, who's going to end up with the power in government and who's going to get blamed. so that's what i see going on. b speaker boehner is trying to solve this problem. but we're bankrupt and we can't continue spending. even these temporary proposals won't address the subject that, we will default. we won't default by not paying the bills. we will default by more inflation. and that is a serious problem. >> i want to play something that i know you've heard. i'm sure you've heard john mccain speaking on the floor yesterday. let's just play that for our viewers. >> republican house failed to raise the debt ceiling would somehow escape all the blame.
7:16pm
then democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced budget amendment and reform entitlements and the tea party hobbits could return to middle earth having defeated mordor. this is the kind of crack political thinking that turned share enengle and christine o'donnel into gop senate nominees. >> he was reading from a "wall street journal" editorial but pretty harsh comments about the effect of the tea party on this debate. what do you make of what he said? >> he sounds angry. i'm pretty upset. i haven't had the philosophy of sound money and personal liberty that i desire, but i hope i don't sound that angry because i think that we have to change people's ideas and change people's attitude about government and find out what the role of government ought to be. see, nobody talks about -- in the midst of all this we should be talking about why we can't be the policemen of the world and why the entitlement system has to be totally revamped. >> do you think the impact of
7:17pm
these new members, these tea party members and sort of ideologically you were out in front of a lot of these folks, do you think it's been a good influence right now? do you think it's a good positive effect what's happening right now, this dissension within the republican party? do you think it's ultimately a good thing? >> i think so. it calls attention to our problems. i just hope we can follow through with the right answers. if it's all anger and screaming and blaming it won't work. but if it comes to the conclusion that i've come to a long time ago that we have to change our attitude about what the role of government is and maybe we ought to just follow the constitution. because that gives us a pretty good guide line. but we don't do that. but i think the subject that the younger members bring up and the pressures, you know, put on dealing with the subject i think is very good. because it brings us closer to that day when we decide the real issues. >> congressman ron paul, appreciate your time. thank you. >> okay, anderson. well, democrats are promising no help on this bill and the boehner bill making the
7:18pm
gop's legislation to pass or fail to pass. joining me now is house minority whip sten steny hoyer. you said there will be no vote for the boehner bill. is that still the case tonight? >> i believe it the democrats have clearly made a determination that this is a bad bill, a bad bill for the country. it doesn't represent any kind of a compromise. it doesn't represent any result of discussions that have occurred over the last months. this is simply a republican bill to seek additional cuts which we need to make but we need to make those in a fashion that will not hurt people, will not undermine the operations of government while at the same time bringing down the debt and deficit. but what we really see here, anderson, in my opinion is the party of no not being able to agree even with itself much less with those it shares responsibility with in the congress of the united states and with the president of the
7:19pm
united states. and it does so at a time of great risk to america and to america's families. and that's deeply unfortunate. >> what do you make of what is going on in the republican party right now in terms of what you yourself are seeing on capitol hill? you've been on capitol hill, you know how it works. have you ever seen anything like this? >> i don't think i've seen anything just like this with the stakes so very high and every leader in the republican party beleaving that we ought not to put the credit of the united states at risk and possibly default for the first time in the history of our country. i don't think i've seen leaders unable to lead their members in such a critical confrontation with america's credit at risk. now, i will tell you. this the party of no has walked away repeatedly now when we've tried to come to an agreement. and very frankly, t.a.r.p., the temporary asset relief program, which was very controversial but
7:20pm
was requested by president george bush, a republican, and very frankly at that point in time when ben bernanke said if we didn't act we would go into a depression, not a recession but a depression, very frankly two-thirds of the republicans walked away from their own president at a time of crisis. so there is some precedent for them not being able to get majorities at a time of crisis when their country is in trouble. >> how much though just on the democratic side, though, is this about politics, about wanting the boehner bill to go to the senate where it's basically going to get tabled and then senator harry reid moves forward on his version? >> look, anderson, the democratic party, its leadership and its members, believe that we have to get a handle on the deficit. we have to bring down our national debt. it's not sustainable. we understand that. but we don't want to put the credit of the united states at risk in that process.
7:21pm
in fact, it will lead us in the exact opposite direction. it will bring the economy further down. it will slow growth, slow revenues. and it will have the opposite effect of what the republicans say they want to accomplish. and we know we want to accomplish. and when you say it's politics, very frankly it's a tough vote. because the public tends to think it means you're going to borrow more. in fact, lifting the debt as you know is simply about paying the bills we have already incurred. and democrats voted overwhelmingly and very frankly, i think they're well over 170 votes for a clean debt limit extension so that we make sure that america does not default on its obligations. we believe that's the moral and fiscally responsible path to take. but at the same time, we are prepared to work with our republican friends and address responsibly bringing down the deficit. the gang of six is a perfect example of that.
7:22pm
the bol simpson commission perfect exam pals of that where republicans and democrats joined together to make very substantive recommendations to bring the debt down. >> but a lot of republicans are saying, look, a lot of these cuts of the democrats that talk about are kind of phantom cuts, fan come savings based on savings on troop levels in iraq and afghanistan. >> well, interesting enough while they're calling the overseas contingency operation dollars phantom funds, anderson, you may know, they used those funds and put them in their own budget that they've already voted for and relied on. >> so where do you see this going? what do you think happens tonight? what do you think happens tomorrow? >> of course i don't know what's going to happen tonight. obviously the republicans are meeting with themselves to see whether or not they have the votes to pass what john boehner has offered as a purely partisan alternative. we were not involved in those discussions. we were not involved in the decisions. and it's interesting that even
7:23pm
in their own party, it is deeply factionalized, deeply divided party, divided against their leadership, angry at their leadership. and a party that is divided itself has difficulty working with the president or working with us. and that's unfortunate. and the country is the poorer for it. and the image of america is poorer for it. and i would hope that if they cannot get the votes or even if they can get the votes and the bill fails in the senate that our republican colleagues will sit down at the table with us and reach agreement, not walk away but reach agreement. >> can john boehner survive if -- as speaker if he's not able to get this passed? if he's not able to get his members on board? >> i don't know the answer to that, anderson. but the question is not whether john boehner can survive or whether steny hoyer can survive. the issue is will the best interest of america survive? will we have the courage to act
7:24pm
responsibly so that america is and is perceived by the rest of the world as the leader they thought it was and wanted to be. >> congressman hoyer, appreciate your time on a busy night. thank you. >> let us know what you 24i6789 we're on facebook. follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper. just ahead tonight, congressman joe walsh of the freshman tea party voting no. we expect a vote sometime tonight. although frankly who knows? it has been a day of assumptions. and assumptions overturned. breaking news coverage continues in a moment. every day, all around the world,
7:25pm
energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment we are america's natural gas.
7:26pm
[ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.
7:27pm
kate bolduan. >> reporter: we said what's the latest? he said there will knob vote tonight. so after all of these hours that members as well as house republican leaders have been trying to work very hard to try to build support around house speaker john boehner's proposal, it appears that at least for the evening they're either giving up that attempt or they haven't gotten the votes yet. because kevin mccarthy has just come out now to tell us there
7:28pm
will be no vote tonight. obviously a lot is in flux. obviously we'll have to figure out where this goes from here. that's the latest. no vote this evening after they abruptly stopped debate on this measure around -- before 6: 6:00 this evening. it's been in flux ever since and we've been watching members come in and out of the house leader's offices. they've been trying to garner support, trying to round it up. it seems they're still working on it at this very hour. >> do you know how many vote they have at this point? >> reporter: we don't. every member that's been coming out we've been asking them how many votes do they have or are they short, they keep telling us it's coming close. it's coming together. at this point we're told we'll see. >> i know it's been a long night for you and probably will continue to be one. john king and gloria borger, what do you make of it? >> i make the fact the speaker can't get stubborn member toss come along. i was e-mailing with the top leadership who said it's more than one. i don't know how many votes shy
7:29pm
but he said it's more than one. obviously they've been having the meetings throughout the night. you reach a point where you realize it's not there. we talked about this, the speaker his credibility is on the line here. what this suggests to me is that he still needs two or three votes. and because of that he realizes tonight he's not just going to be able to twist an arm. he's going to have to most likely make changes to the plan. that will take time. they'll have to make legislative changes if that's the case. if that's the case might have to make changes, go to the congressional budget office and say we're changing this plan. how much do we save. there's some horse trading going on. and the speaker realized he wasn't going to finish it tonight. >> in the old days it used to be when you were doing this kind of maneuvering and arm twisting you could offer somebody an earmark and say we'll give you this amount of money in your district, right? that doesn't happen anymore. that's not what these member are about. when they're going into the speaker's office, they're they're talking about how do we get to a balance budget amendment, for example? how can we play this so we can
7:30pm
make sure that the cuts that we get eventually are going to be serious and deep cuts? how can we ensure that democrats aren't going to try and raise taxes on us? and so, you know, these are kind of deep philosophical, ideological and for some of these members i would argue even theological issues. and that's what they're talking about in the back rooms right now. >> and john, tomorrow, how does this process restart? i mean, again, it's him just trying to make change for individual members? >> if we have learned anything over the past few days -- and i would argue over the past few months back to the last elections -- is the old rules don't necessarily apply here in washington. two-ways to look at this. the speaker can try to salvage this vote, the tactics of this vote. he can try to make changes, twist arms, do what it takes to get him to that magic number which i'm told is more than one vote away.
7:31pm
is it three or four or, two don't have the answer to that tonight. you can view this as a collapse for the speaker tonight and he tries to repair it and pass something symptom, or is this with the clock ticking another moment of reset? we've had several in this conversation. and do we go back to conversations about a different deal, a bigger deal, the no, between the house and senate? the house didn't want that. the freshmen don't want that. they want to plant their flag on this. but this is going to cause another reset button. and it's going to cause because of the date on the calendar just around the corner, august 2nd, they're already scheduled to work through the weekend. will we just do the same tactics or will this cause some bigger conversation? that's a big question. >> and earlier in the week, anderson, we were talking about whether the white house might possibly agree to some kind of a short-term patch of two to three days in order to get the negotiations really moving again. and i think, you know, as the clock ticks i think we have to look back to that scenario and wonder whether that's a possibility again. >> remember all that grand
7:32pm
bargain big talk? doesn't that seem like 20 years ago? was that like two weeks ago? >> yeah. although if you talk to some democrats and jessica's been reporting that the white house is still talking about some kind of a grand bargain, right? so it seems like a long time ago. but funny how these things work, right? >> john, gloria thank you. i want to bring in two other perspectives now. on the left democratic strategyist cornell -- and former senate candidate mccain advisor and former hue let pack yard ceo, carly fiorina. carly, just in terms of the politics of, this how do you think republicans are looking at this in terms of the political who's going to get blamed for this? what are the politics behind this maneuvering? >> well, i'm not a politician so i'm probably not the best person to ask about the politics. but as a republican i would say
7:33pm
this. i think it's disappointing that several, a handful of freshmen republican congress people, don't understand how much impact they've already had. and what i mean by that is, the republicans and the republicans alone, i would argue, have totally changed the conversation in washington, d.c. over the last less than six months. from how much should we spend to how much must we save. and from a belief that the way to close deficits is to raise taxes to a recognition that the only way to close deficits is to cut spending. that is a tremendous accomplishment. and i also think it's worth reflecting on, and i hope that white house is reflecting tonight, on the role that they've played in bringing us to this point. you will remember less than a week ago, president obama went to the press room and talked to the press and said, "i have told
7:34pm
the leaders of the house and the senate, harry reid, mitch mcconnell, nancy pelosi, john boehner to come to my office tomorrow morning, saturday morning at 11:00 and bring me a deal that can pass both the house and the senate. " and in fact that deal was brought to him by nancy pelosi and harry reid on sunday night. and he turned that deal down. and the next night he went on television and cast gated the republican party, not exactly helpful in reaching a compromise. so i think there's plenty of blame to go around here. but i must say i'm disappointed that republicans -- a couple republicans -- can't accept the progress, the huge progress that's been made and the huge difference that they've made in the conversation and the mindset of washington, d.c. about a critical issue of national importance. >> cornell? >> well, of course i'm going to push back on some of that. and then actually i want to sort of not play partisan politics and try to speak to something
7:35pm
bigger. i don't think they've changed the conversation that much. typically especially with the american people. because the american people actually still think that we do need revenues along with cuts to get there on this. but you know, this is such a humongous debacle that it blows our minds. it would almost be comical if we were not headed for a cliff. the fact of the matter is, even if he passes this bill, it is dead on arrival in the senate. not only among democrats say they're not going to vote for it but you have a number of republicans who say they won't vote for it. so instead of the speaker being held hostage by a group of radical tea partiers, why doesn't he get bigger than a moment? not playing partisan politics here, why doesn't he take this moment, pick up the phone and call nancy pelosi or congressman hoyer and say, you know what? what is there that we can do with this bill that will get a modicum of democrat votes so that we can move this country forward? if he were to do that, he might go down as one of the greatest
7:36pm
speakers in our nation's history as opposed to the speaker -- through history that he's about to inherit with this sort of partisan bickering. >> do you think he could do that given the partisanship of this date? won't republicans jump ship? >> i think john boehner has been talking to the other side all along. i think he has spent more time talking with president obama than perhaps anyone else. i'm quite confident that he has spent and continues to spend time talking with his democratic counterparts, both in the house and in the senate. and i have confidence -- i truly do, as i think the president does -- that ultimately the leaders in both the house and the senate, democrats and republicans, will find a way to avoid default. but i must say that republicans have been utterly consistent in talking about a deal that will work and that will pass. and i talked about this deal when i was on your show several
7:37pm
weeks ago aernderson. it says yes, we need revenues but we're not going to get them by raising tax rates, we're going to get them by reforming the tax code and closing loopholes. and we have to cut spending and do basic reforms to entitlement programs. that deal has been on the table for months. people know what that deal is. but the president of the united states would not take that deal. and the democrats until harry reid's most recent plan cobbled together on sunday night, the democrats have not offered a single plan. and the president of the united states has never offered a plan that could be scored, that was clear, that was consistent, and that he would put his reputation on. >> cornell, what about that? you hear that from a lot of republicans saying that president talks about it but hasn't offered a plan. >> i'm a little confused here. because all of a sudden now the speaker's been reaching out to democrats and trying to go bipartisan. >> he has been. >> well then, congressman hoyer must be lying then. because he certainly hasn't been
7:38pm
reaching out to him and talking to them. they're not including democrats in this conversation. so i'm not going to let you muddy up the waters. >> that's factually not correct. he has talked with nancy pelosi, harry reid and president obama for weeks and weeks and weeks. >> we are not in negotiations right now in that back room. and my simple point would be this. if he were to in fact reach out to democrats and say, okay, what are some of your ideal to put in this bill so that we can move forward and not be held hostage by a radical group of freshmen as they take this country over the cliff, it would make him a bigger leader. i don't think we're going to get there by just cutting away the parts of this program that help middle class americans. our economists don't believe that and certainly middle class americans don't believe it depending on what public poll you look at, 60 or 70% of americans. and even almost a plurality of republicans who want a balanced approach to this. it is a tea party faction that is holding this hostage. >> well, that's interesting. because i actually just don't think your facts are correct.
7:39pm
if the tea party loved this bill so much i it would have passed by now. the truth is that for all your talk about a balanced approach, the only people who have put forward real plans are the republicans. and it is also true that john boehner has spent hours, days, weeks, trying to reach a deal with president obama, with his counterparts. look, i agree that we're at a terrible place. but i think it's just factually incorrect to lay all the blame for this at the republicans' feet and not to look back just two weeks to history. >> cornell, your final thoughts and i've got to go. >> which part is factually incorrect? he can't get his own bill to the floor? the president hasn't met him with compromises? the president has even taken on revenues now and say, okay, fine, let's make cuts. they still can't get a deal. which part of that is factually incorrect? >> well, let's just start with
7:40pm
the fact that nancy pelosi, harry reid, mitch mcconnell and john boehner came to the agreement. >> harry reid has a bill right now. as a matter of fact, a bill that will get brought to the floor. >> maybe if you'd let me answer the question or respond to your comment. >> >> we've got to wrap it up. a final thought from you. >> those four folks present add plan to the president on sunday evening. the president rejected it. and now we are in a place where two different plans have been hastily propose today try and get a compromise here. you can say many, many things about the republicans. but what you cannot say is that john boehner hasn't been working in good faith to try and solve this problem. >> cornell and then i've got to go. >> did you say harry reid, nancy pelosi, all four put a plan before the president and he rejected it? i think that would be news to the white house. because i don't think the president has seen that plan.
7:41pm
>> the president of the united states asked them to come forward with a plan, nancy pelosi and harry reid presented a plan that involved -- this has been talked about -- that involved another vote within six months. something that by the way is custom air. debt ceiling increases have been voted on roughly every seven months for the last several decades. the president rejected that. because he doesn't want to have this debate again. >> this is blowing my mind, literally. what you have right now is a speaker trying to fight with his own caucus to bring forth a plan, a budget plan that is already dead on arifle. so it's political theater at its height. >> so is harry reid's plan for that mart. >> well, his plan at least his plan can make it to the floor. he's putting forward a plan right now that we all know is not going to go anywhere. he's wasting our time. >> guys i'm sorry we're out of time. cornell belcher, carly fiorina appreciate it. be right back. ighway. how does it do that?
7:42pm
well, to get there, a lot of complicated engineering goes into every one. like variable valve timing and turbocharging, active front grille shutters that close at high speeds, and friction reducing -- oh, man, that is complicated. how about this -- cruze eco offers 42 miles per gallon. cool? ♪
7:43pm
7:44pm
congressman joe walsh of illinois, a house freshman, a tea party favorite has been a loud voice in the rebellion that speaker boehner has been trying
7:45pm
to tame. he joins me now. no vote tonight. is that good news for you? >> i take a contrarian view. i think this entire debate is good. the speaker is doing a great job trying to advocate for a plan, and the lobbying that they've been doing with each one of us has been very respectful. my colleague steny hoyer who was on before, anderson, i think he kept referring to us republicans as the party of no. i don't get that. the republicans a week ago passed the only plan right now that's been passed out of a body of congress up here. look. i've been pretty clear in how i feel about this president. i think one of the major reasons why we're here in the 11th hour is because this guy has not led at all. the senate democrats haven't done anything. you may not like what the republicans have done, but they're the only folks in town who have been trying to deal with this debt ceiling issue. >> what would it take for you to support a boehner plan?
7:46pm
how would his plan have to change? >> i think for a lot of us, anderson -- and again it's a great first step. but for a lot of us it's going to take systemic reform that makes sure we never get here again. one of your prior guests said this isn't the old days anymore. this isn't the old days. i mean, step back for one minute and imagine how life would be different if these republicans hadn't come to congress this year. we would have raised the debt ceiling three, four, five, six, who knows how many trillion? we'd still be spending money like there's no tomorrow. thank god the republicans came here and have changed the conversation. >> you're saying systemic reform. what exactly does that mean? i mean, in order to -- >> that means, anderson, that means the only way we are going to get this town to change the way they spend money is bypassing a balanced budget amendment, by forcing both houses every year to balance their books. it's part of cut, cap and balance again that house passed
7:47pm
with 234 votes last week. >> and is a potential default next week acceptable to you? >> i don't buy this notion of default. to me that's a false choice. default means you can't service your debt, you can't pay off your debt, anderson. and there's plenty of government revenues to do that. one of the things that's been harmful in this debate is, there's been this obsession with august 2nd, august 2nd. we need to get this right. we need a balanced budget amendment. if it takes us a few days more to make sure we get it right, let's do it. >> and if moody's or others downgrade the u.s. credit rating? >> >> well, a downgrade is serious, anderson. and what the folks at moody's and standard & poors told us last week is, you may get downgraded even if you raise the debt ceiling. if you raise this debt ceiling and don't get serious about spending, in all likelihood you will get downgraded. cut, cap and balance met the
7:48pm
credit agencies' criteria to avoid a downgrade. >> congressman joe walsh, appreciate you sticking around for us so much. >> thank you, anderson. a lot to talk about. we're going to be live into the 11:00 hour to continue with this breaking news. no vote tonight, a very tense night on capitol hill. and the white house. more details ahead. [ man ] this is my robot butler.
7:49pm
say i'm missing england. i type in e-n-g... and he gives me a variety of options. would you like to have a look at a map, my lad? ah, why not? shall we check on the status of your knighthood? yes. again? yes, again, please! thank you. with my digital manservant, i'll never be homesick again. would you like me to put the kettle on, sir? no, i'd like you to get rid of that ostrich. it's been here a month. [ male announcer ] think, type, go. with just type. only on the new hp touchpad with webos.
7:50pm
7:51pm
we're now to breaking news. no vote tonight in house speaker john boehner's debt plan. he doesn't have enough gop support. the vote put on hold yet again. we're joined by chief white house correspondent jessica yellin and senior correspondent jeffrey toobin. -- carly fiorina was talking about a plan that nancy pelosi and harry reid presented to the president and he passed on it. is that true? >> well, the president was willing to move forward on certain plans, but there was a lot of -- they needed an
7:52pm
agreement with the republicans in order to go forward. and the fundamental breakdown was that they didn't have that agreement. there's a lot of backward looking we could do at this point, anderson. but the bottom line is, right now at the white house there's enormous frustration. because what they're looking at is the clock ticking and the fact that speaker boehner has a bill that in their view couldn't get any democratic votes, couldn't get through the senate. and he couldn't get republicans at this point to even sign onto the bill. so why are they in their view wasting all this time still on a bill that was just going to get republican support? the question now is, what does the president do? what's the president's next move? will he call a meeting of leaders? how involved does he get? my information from sources at this point is he has not planned to call leaders, he has not called leaders to the white house yet for any meetings in the coming days. that could change. when he was in the middle of things it didn't get a deal done so he took a different tact. let the house and senate try to do it on their own.
7:53pm
maybe he'll get more involved tomorrow. we'll have to wait and see. he's been monitoring events from the residents. >> jeff toobin joins us as per. what do you make of all of this? . one of the things that's so interesting about what's happening now is how much our whole political dialogue has moved to the right since the 2010 elections. when president obama gave his speech he said i want a balanced approach. i want some revenues and some budget cuts. well, the revenues are gone. there are no more tax increases in the boehner plan, there are no more tax increases in the reid plan. so even that is not conservative enough for the house republicans. so what makes this so perilous is that republicans can't even coalesce on a plan that clearly has no chance of passing the senate or getting an i proveded by president obama. so you think, how does this get solved when even boehner's plan failed when clearly reid's plan or anything that comes out of the senate is going to be to the
7:54pm
left of what boehner's plan failed at today. >> there are a number of republicans who have been concerned that they're being set up to take the blame for whatever eventually happens. >> well, you know, maybe that's because they deserve the blame. i mean, you got to pass something. and john boehner with great fanfare said, we're going to pass something today. well, they couldn't get anything done. i mean, whatever you think of our president obama, he said he can't sign something that hasn't been passed by congress. and neither the house nor the senate at this point has any plan that is -- it seems three days away -- remotely likely to get to his desk. and as jessica said, he's frustrated. but ultimately this is congress's job to try to get something passed. >> and jessica, tomorrow morning what happens? do we know? at the white house. >> well, tomorrow morning first of all they're watching the markets. who knows how the markets are going to react to this? part of what the downgrade
7:55pm
potential is about is the inability for washington to function. so the markets could go haywire simply over this. so there's some anxiety about that. i wouldn't be surprised if we do see the president come out and make some kind of statement. they're not advising that. but i wouldn't be surprised. and we could see the president call people back to the white house for another meeting and try to knock heads or try to forge a compromise. who knows what the path forward will be? the big question is, will the u.s. senate try to break off and go on its own? until now harry reid the democratic leader has waited for speaker boehner to sort of get his vote over with and then he can proceed on his own. but maybe at this point, who knows, maybe senator reid will say, you know what? enough. i'm going to go on my own and stop waiting. >> jessica yellin at the white house, jeff toobin as well. we're going to continue to follow the breaking news live into our 11:00 hour. bizarre day in the child sexual assault trial of warren jeffs. the leader of that polygamist sect. and an army private awol arrested in texas not for
7:56pm
skipping base. police say he was found with a stash of weapons and was planning to use them against u.s. troops. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women of the american postal worker's union. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers.
7:57pm
excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. let's check in some other stories we're following. tom for man. >> reporter: texas police say a
7:58pm
muslim american army private planned to attack fellow soldiers at fort hood. 21-year-old nasar abdul was arrested after a gun shop tipped off police he looked suspicious and bought a lot of ammunition. he was awol from kentucky. tomorrow police will interview anders breivik for the second time. he's suspected of killing at least 76 people in two attacks last friday inside a texas courtroom today, warren jeffs fired his defense team and opted to represent himself in his child sexual assault trial. but when it was time for him to present his opening statement he refused. jeffs is the leader of a fundamentalist mormon sect. the the trustee trying to reach money madoff ponzi scheme, true month holdings has agreed to pay $1 billion to the victim's compensation fund. speaking of money, someone offered a bid for nearly $1 million to buy this rubber
7:59pm
rendering of casey anthony's face. the mask was auctioned on e-bay. now we'll see if they actually come through with the money. >> i don't understand that at all. why would someone do that? >> i don't know. doesn't make any sense. live at the top of the hour with breaking news. no vote tonight on the debt ceiling. we'll talk to ron paul, steny hoyer and our political panel next. host: could switching to geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance? host: do people use smartphones to do dumb things? man 1: send, that is the weekend. app grapgic: yeah dawg! man 2: allow me to crack...the bubbly! man 1: don't mind if i doozy. man 3: is a gentleman with a brostache invited over to this party? man 1: only if he's ready to rock! ♪ sfx: guitar and trumpet jam vo: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. didn't really know what i wanted to do. didn't like high school. and then i met my teacher, mr. mccooey,
8:00pm
and that click happened. i would never have even thought about going into the engineering field if it wasn't for these ap classes, these teachers and them helping me realize that this is a major calling in my life. ♪ i didn't always know that i would like math, but now i think it'll change my life.
8:01pm
8:02pm
good evening, everyone. if you're just joining us, breaking news tonight. the headline no vote, not yet, not tonight. delayed again. house speaker john boehner working hard tonight, twisting arms but could not get enough of his own fellow republicans to vote for a debt reduction bill. his own debt reduction bill. >> the bill's not perfect. i've never said it was perfect. nobody in my caucus believes it's perfect. but what this bill reflects is a sincere, honest effort to end this crisis in a bipartisan way, to send it to the senate where it can receive action. >> the vote was scheduled for yesterday, rescheduled for early this evening, put on hold again so the leadership could wrangle votes then put on hold yet again at about half past 10:00 eastern time. yesterday speaker boehner told the troops to quote get their asses in line". not enough republicans have and now his credibility is certainly on the line. most of the opposition coming from tea party supporters, raw,
8:03pm
open and direct rebellion. >> we want to make sure we never get here again. i want to support something that makes sure we never get here again. >> the deal that is on the table makes the hole deeper. and so don't -- you shouldn't expect people who believe that we should balance the budget to vote for a deal that makes the hole deeper. >> i can't support this plan. i would love to be able to support speaker boehner, leader cantor. i have to have something that transcends election cycles. i can't support it. >> over on the democratic controlled senate side they're waiting to go get a house bill simply so they can vote no on it. then experts say the real bargaining could begin on some kind of compromise that both the house and senate might agree on. now that is on hold at least until tomorrow. the stakes keep rising. dow industry also lost another 62 point today. five straight down days for the market, just four days in the debt clock runs out. a lot of ground to cover tonight. with white house correspondent kate bolduan and gloria borger
8:04pm
and jeff toobin. kate, what's happening on capitol hill? have they all gone home now. >> reporter: people seem to think they're heading home but we know meetings are still happening, the republican leadership are still meeting, still talking. it doesn't seem like they still know the path forward. they're still working onnite trying to build support around this bill or figuring out some way possibly to maybe even to change it in order to win over support. the fact of the matter is they've been at this for hours and they have still not been able to twist enough arms to be confident they have the votes to support it. i just spoke to indiana congressman mike pence who had been in the speaker's office for quite some time. he said that concerns divider member to member. but they are going to stand by their principles, they want to make sure that the cuts are greater than the amount the debt ceiling is increased and that we're going to go at it again tomorrow with a special conference meeting being called at 10:00 a.m. for now, for all intents and purposes, talks may be happening but there is no vote tonight. >> john king, what does this
8:05pm
mean for the republican party and for the chance of actually getting some sort of a deal? >> it means we not only have divided government in washington that complicates things, we have a divided republican party in washington which complicates things even more. just got an e-mail from a top house republican aide who says we'll get guidance later tonight still on the schedule for tomorrow. they say when they took the majority we promised to end the practice of forcing substantial bills through the house in the dark of night. we take that pledge seriously. that is spin. spin and more spin. they don't have the votes. i don't mean that disrespectfully. they don't have the votes so they're going back to the drawing board. i'm told they are discussing revisions to the plan the speaker hoped to vote on today. how significant are the revisions? we don't know. another lead told me we'll meet with our members tomorrow and we'll go from there, meaning get a good night's sleep. let's come back and wrestle tomorrow. as they wait in the senate, i talked to a top republican aide there who said it's hard to tell. we'll start over in the morning. the hard to tell was an answer to the question does the boehner plan still live past tomorrow or
8:06pm
do you need to now anderson say forget about it and hit the reset button and try some different, more dramatic plan. >> gloria, what do you make of this? >> i'm hearing the same things that john is hearing. and there are some freshmen who really are saying, look, we want more reassurance that we can get the votes we want to get on the balanced budget amendment. this is key to them. it's very important principle to them. and some freshmen are saying maybe we ought to tie it to the second vote on the debt limit. and so i think what you're seeing is lots of people throwing lots of things out to the speaker. and the reason you have a rules committee hearing is so that you can change the bill and you can alter it. and i think the speaker clearly understands that if he's going to pass this, and of course we all know it's going to go nowhere in the senate, but if he's going to pass this he's going to have to do some tinkering with the bill to make it stronger to get that freshmen support. >> jeff, is it possible for the president to just raise the debt ceiling under the 14th
8:07pm
amendment? >> well, this has become a very big subject in the law professor world. the 14th amendment is one of the most familiar parts of the constitution, guarantees due process of law, equal protection of the law. but there is frankly a provision in section 4 that i have never paid any attention to before. and it goes like this. section 4 of the 14th amendment said "the validity of the public debt of the united states shall not be questioned". now, i don't know exactly what that means. i don't think anybody knows precisely what that means. but it has been suggested that under that provision, president obama could simply order that the debt be paid and that this crisis be forestalled. he has mostly reject that option, but as far as i've read their statements, they have not completely rejected that option. obama has always said, look, i think this should be dealt with by congress, not by unilaterally under the 14th amendment. but under my reading of their statements, they haven't
8:08pm
completely ruled out in a total crisis situation invoking the section of the amendment and ordering the debt paid, at least in the short term. >> it would obviously raise a lot of concerns i think i saw michele bachmann saying that the president would be a dictator if he did that. it could be legally challenged. >> well, it certainly could be grounds for impeachment. and i don't say that facetiously. i mean, there are certainly members of congress who would regard this as an impeachable offense. it is not clear that anyone would have the standing, the legal right, to go to a court and say that a court would stop the president from doing. this certainly impeachment would be a remedy and there would be people talking about it. i'm not sure any court would actually use this, entertain a challenge on the standing. >> john how much of what's going on the last couple nights on capitol hill has been about wanting to kind of avoid getting the blame for or getting the credit for some sort of a deal?
8:09pm
i mean, from republican perspective, from the democratic perspective? >> there's no question you've seen the president giving speeches to the nation coming into the white house briefing room quite frequently in recent days, something he doesn't do all that often. he has been trying very carefully to portray the public image the man in the middle the grownup say democrats you're going to have to cuss some medicare and social security. republicans i want you to raid tax revenue. most people give him credit public opinion polling reflects the president has positioned himself smartly here in the middle. but he needs a deal. he's a president who's going to be campaigning for re-election with unemployment somewhere in the ballpark of 9%. any further jitters to the economy murder undermine the president's re-election prospects. in terms of the house and the senate that's all we've had in recent days. the republicans want to pass their plan in the house and say that democrats won't do enough cutting, they won't do enough or they want to raise taxes. the republicans want to say that john boehner is hostage to the tea party. so what you have right now is finger pointing and a clock ticking toward a deadline that is significant. how significant? god forbid we might have to find
8:10pm
out. >> and anderson, there's absolutely no trust right now between the parties and between republicans and the president of the united states. and i think what you see is a lot of republicans who say, look, we gave up so much when we did all those compromises in the lame duck session. and we don't think we're going to get the cuts that we were promised then. and so they really don't trust the president. and so they want everything in writing. and they don't trust the democrats in the senate. and so you have this huge ideological chasm to the point where they're even interpreting public opinion differently. republicans believe they'll come out on top in all of this. the public will blame barack obama. and the white house believes that public will blame the republican party. >> and kate, we don't know how many votes they still need, correct? >> reporter: we don't know. and i asked -- i actually asked congressman pence that point
8:11pm
blank. he said stay tuned. they think that they will actually -- they hope however we're going to rework this or twist more arms if that's even possible that going to get these votes. but the fact of the matter is, probably what's so frustrating for people that have been watching this, is that if this bill passes as we now know it, it's still going nowhere in the senate. so while this process has been unraveling, we've been watching it, it's been quite a wild night, still the clock is ticking. and at some point the leaders of both the house and the senate are going to have to realize. this and if they are going to beat this deadline they are going to have to come together and make some decision, despite the fact that we're still talking about john boehner's bill and we haven't even gotten over to the senate to start talking about senator harry reid's bill if he's even going to be taking this up. >> and speaking of going nowhere, we've been hearing still from house republicans that we need a vote on the balanced budget amendment to the constitution. the odds of a balanced budget amendment to the constitution
8:12pm
passing are exactly zero. i mean, it has no chance of getting through the senate. and it has no chance of getting three quarters of the states to ratify it which is what it takes for a constitutional amendment. so the idea that a vote on the balanced budget amendment should have anything to do with the resolution of what is a real crisis is frankly unbelievable. because it is just fantasy land. it has nothing to do with what might actually be passed into law. >> so what actually may happen, john? and what are the options? there's the boehner bill. they change it. they amend it. they get enough vote tomorrow. they pass it. it goes to the senate where it's tabled. what happens then. >> then reid can pass his plan or he can defeat the republican plan, then he can bring his plan up. probably doesn't have 60 vote to pass it in the senate at that point in the ritual of washington that's when normally real negotiations begin. that's why the white house even though it doesn't like the
8:13pm
boehner plan wanted it dispensed with tonight. they didn't want another day in the house with the republican wrangling. so watching this go forward, anderson, the bigger picture is at a time when the country desperately needs leadership, all the key leaders are weakened. the pew poll had president obama dropping. we know his disapproval rating is up. his handling of the economy disapproval is up. you have a weakened president. now you see tonight in full public display the weakening of the republican speaker of the house, the man who just took the speaker's gavel with such great ceremony back in january, the leader of the new republican majority. so you have two weakened leaders who are the two most important people in the conversation right now. and from that, from that we go forward with a great deal of uncertainty and a deadline right around the corner. >> and you know what, anderson, trust in government? the numbers on trust in government are auto all-time low. >> that's saying a lot. >> i think we can see why. that's saying a lot. we see why. just by watching this kind of circus play out. and it's got to play out because
8:14pm
each side believes what it believes. but in the end, the public is watching this and saying, you know, this isn't what we voted for, either. >> gloria why couldn't the democrats in the senate come up -- go forward on their plan now ignoring what's happening in the house? >> well, they could. but they know it's not going to go -- they can't get 60 votes. it would get filibustered. of course when i talked to a leadership aide in the senate today he said, okay. let's let the republicans filibuster our bill and we could say they're filibustering the debt limit. and i said, okay. that's a great bumper sticker. but where does that get you in terms of extending the debt limit? and that's the point we really can't get to yet. i think these things, it's like kabuki. it's got to play itself out to a certain degree. let the house do its thing. let the senate do its thing. and then the real deal gets cut. except -- except we don't have any time left, right?
8:15pm
>> you know, that great washington phrase, let it play itself out or let's see how it plays out. that was something for a month ago. >> right. >> i mean, we're out of time. >> exactly. we are. >> it certainly seems that way. >> this has been built from the beginning to be a last-minute thing. because both sides are going to have to vote for things they don't want to. so this is unfortunately, sadly, has built from the beginning to be a deadline thing. >> we're also hearing -- i've heard from some of the leaders of the senate that they think that in the end these things don't work themselves out on the house or the senate floor. in the end, these big votes, these work themselves out by the leaders coming together and sitting in a room and finally making a deal. but when that's going to happen we all wonder. >> kate, gloria, john, jeffrey, thanks very much. you're going to hear from congressman ron paul momentarily as we've been talking about tonight. he and other opponents of the bill simply believe the measure does not go far enough. some don't think we should raise the debt limit at all. some congressman paul included
8:16pm
downplay some of the ramifications. all saying they are doing what the voters told them to do. >> i will not be casting my vote for that bill. i cannot. i am committed to not raising the debt ceiling. i don't believe for a moment that we will lose the full faith and credit of the united states. >> we know in august our government's going to have plenty of revenues to service our debt, take care of our military and take care of our senior citizens. >> well, i love my speaker and i have deep respect for our leadership. but i just feel so strongly about this, and i think i'm trying to do what's right for the american people. >> politically we're told, gee, this is the political thing to do. you've got to do the political thing. if you don't vote for the boehner bill you're voting for obama. that's not true. >> congressman louie go percentag of texas who went into a meeting today with speaker boehner saying he'd been called into the principal's office, came out saying his vote is no. a bloody, beaten down no. congressman ron paul also would vote no on the bill.
8:17pm
>> congressman, you're not willing to support the boehner bill at this point. why? >> well, it raises the debt limit. and i've made too many promises i wouldn't raise the debt limit. i've never voted for the appropriation bill and i've been worried about our spending for many, many years if not decades. so i think that would only encourage people to spend more money. if debt is the problem, raising the debt limit by $2.4 billion, i don't see how it can be a solution. >> you talk about obviously the principles behind your not supporting it. is part of your thinking, though, also politics of what happens to the bill in the senate and what happens after that? >> no. i think that's sort of not much of my concern. that's what most of what's going on here is all the politics. i've heard that they already know what they'll finally come out of this but they have to go up to the last minute to see who gets blamed for whatever and see who can get the best edge. but i think the leaders have more or less agreed on something to raise the debt limit. >> you think regardless of what
8:18pm
you voting regardless of whether or not the boehner bill moved forward tonight that debt limit will still be raised? >> yes. one way or the other, yes. they're going to raise it. they will not default by not paying their bills. governments our size and in this much debt always default in a different manner. the default has to come, but they'll default by paying the bills off with bad money so we're constantly defaulting. and we've done this over many, many years. >> you talked about the plibs that are happening among other people on capitol hill right now. for folks who are watching at home, they see this -- a lot of people see this as just pure politics going back and forth. can you explain? i mean, what is happening there right now? what are the politics behind all this? >> well, i'm not an insider. i don't know the exact details. >> you're a congressman, though. you're pretty much an insider, aren't you? >> yeah. but i'm not in john boehner's office. he doesn't ask me my opinion. but what my opinion is is that they're trying to find out who's
8:19pm
going to get blamed and who's going to get credit because they know they have to achieve something. >> what do you make of what's going on with the gop, though? what does it say about john boehner as speaker of the house or about -- i mean, who's in charge of the republican party if john boehner the speaker of the house can't wrangle his own members? >> well, i think he has a tough job. he has a lot of new members. so even though i disagree with his answers and his programs, i sort of have a bit of sympathy for him trying to put them all together an get something passed. but just think of what happened to paul ryan. he made a proposal and he gbashd pretty badly. boehner still has to put up with the senate and the president and goes back and forth. it's a power struggle. who's going to end up with the power in government and who's going to get blamed. so that's what i see going on. but i think speaker boehner under the circumstances, he's probably earnestly trying to solve this problem. but it's an insolvable problem
8:20pm
because we're bankrupt. nobody wants to admit the real problem. we're bankrupt. and we can't continue spending. and even these temporary proposals won't address the subject that we will default, we won't default by not paying the bills, we will default by more inflation. and that is a serious problem. >> i want to point something that i know you heard, i'm sure you hearding john mccain speaking on the floor yesterday. let's just play that for our viewers. >> the republican house that failed to raise the debt ceiling would somehow escape all the blame. then democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced budget amendment and reform entitlements and the tea party hobbits could return to middle earth having defeated mordor. this is the kind of crack political thinking that turned sharon angle and christine o'donnell into gop senate nominees. >> he was reading obviously from a "wall street journal" editorial but pretty harsh words about the influence, the effect of the tea party on this debate.
8:21pm
what do you make of what he said? >> he sounds angry. i'm pretty upset. and i haven't had the philosophy of sound money and personal liberty that i desire. but i hope i don't sound that angry. because i think that we have to change people's ideas and change people's attitude about government and find out what the role of government ought to be. see, nobody talks about in the midst of all this we should be talking about why we can't be the policemen of the world and why the entitlement system has to be totally revamped. >> do you think the impact of these new members, these tea party members and sort of ideologically you were out in front of a lot of these folks, do you think it's been a good influence right now? do you think it's a good positive effect what's happening right now, this dissension within the republican party, do you think it's ultimately a good thing? >> i think so. it calls attention to our problems. i just hope we can follow through with the right answers. if it's all anger and screaming and blaming it won't work. but if it comes to the conclusion that i've come to a long time ago that we have to
8:22pm
change our attitude about what the role of government is and maybe we ought to just follow the constitution. because that gives us a pretty good guide line. but we don't do that. but i think the subject that the younger members bring up and the pressures, you know, put on dealing with the subject i think is very good. because it brings us closer to that day when we decide the real issues. >> congressman ron paul, appreciate your time. thank you. >> okay, anderson. let us know what you think. we're on facebook you con follow me on twitter ads aer ter @ and cooper. steny hoyer is next. ♪ let me do a few tricks ♪ some old and then some new tricks ♪ ♪ i'm very versatile ♪ so let me entertain you ♪ and we'll have a real good time ♪
8:23pm
[ male announcer ] with beats audio and flash, you can experience richer music and download movies straight to the new hp touchpad with webos. ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪
8:24pm
[ whistles ] ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ ting! ] [ male announcer ] travelers can help you protect the things you care about and save money with multi-policy discounts. are you getting the coverage you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. can become romantic just like that. a spark might come from -- a touch, a glance -- it can come along anywhere, anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment's right even if it's not every day. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. [ man ] do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis.
8:25pm
side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com. breaking news tonight, house republicans have put the vote on speaker baener's debt reductions bill on hold again. originally it was set for yesterday then this evening then late tonight. they might try again tomorrow. democrats have made this bill the gop's responsibility. saying not a single member will support it. i talked with that predictions with representative steny hoyer of maryland. >> you said there will be no democrat voting for the boehner bill. is that still the case tonight? >> i believe it is, yes,
8:26pm
anderson. i think that democrats have clearly made a determination that this is a bad bill, a bad bill for the country. it doesn't represent any kind of a compromise. it doesn't represent any result of discussions that have occurred over the last months. this is simply a republican bill to seek the additional cuts which we need to make but we need to make those in a fashion that will not hurt people, will not undermine the operations of government while at the same time bringing down the debt and deficit. but what we really see here, anderson, in my opinion is the party of no not being able to agree even with itself much less with those it shares responsibility with in the congress of the united states and with the president of the united states. and it does so at a time of great risk to america and to america's families. and that's deeply unfortunate. >> what do you make of what is going on in the republican party right now in terms of what you yourself are seeing on capitol
8:27pm
hill? you've been on capitol hill. you know how it works. have you ever seen anything like this? >> i don't think i've seen anything just like this with the stakes so very high and every leader in the republican party believing that we ought not to put the credit of the united states at risk and possibly default for the first time in the history of our country. i don't think i've seen leaders unable to lead their members in such a critical confrontation with measure's credit at risk. now, i will tell you this. the party of no has walked away repeatedly now when we've try to come to an agreement. and very frankly, t.a.r.p., the temporary asset relief program, which was very controversial but was requested by president george bush, a republican. and very frankly at that point in time when ben bernanke said if we didn't act we would go into a depression, in the a
8:28pm
recession but a depression, very frankly two-thirds of the republicans walked away from their own president at a time of crisis. so there is some precedent for them not being able to get majorities at a time of crisis when their country is in trouble. >> how much though just on the democratic side, though, is this about politics, about wanting the boehner bill to go to the senate where it's basically going to get tabled and then senator harry reid moves forward on his version? >> look, anderson, the democratic party, its leadership and its members, believe that we have to get a handle on the deficit. we have to bring down our national debt. it's not sustainable. we understand that. but we don't want to put the credit of the united states at risk in that process. in fact, it will lead us in the exact opposite direction. it will bring the economy further down. it will slow growth, slow revenues, and it will have the opposite effect of what the
8:29pm
republicans say they want to accomplish. and we know we want to accomplish. and when you say it's politics, very frankly it's a tough vote. because the public tends to think it means you're going to borrow more. in fact, lifting the debt as you know is simply about paying the bills we have already incurred. and democrats voted overwhelmingly and very frankly i think they're well over 170 votes for a clean debt limit extension so that we make sure that america does not default on its obligations. we believe that's the moral and fiscally responsible path to take. but at the same time, we are prepared to work with our republican friends and address responsibly bringing down the deficit. the gang of six is a perfect example of that. the bowles-simpson commission perfect examples of that where democrats and republicans joined together to make very substantive recommendations to bring the debt down. >> but a lot of republicans are saying, look, a lot of these cuts that the democrats are
8:30pm
talking about are kind of phantom cuts, phantom savings based on savings on troop levels in iraq and afghanistan. >> well, interesting enough while they're calling the overseas contingency operation dollars phantom funds, anderson, you may know they used those funds and put them in their own budget that they've already voted for and relied on. >> so where do you see this going? what do you think happens tonight? what do you think happens tomorrow? >> well, of course, i don't know what's going to happen tonight. obviously the republicans are meeting with themselves to see whether or not they have the votes to pass what john boehner has offered as a purely partisan alternative. we were not involved in those discussions. we were not involved in the decisions. and it's interesting that even in their own party it is deeply factionalized, deeply divided paint, divided against their leadership, angry at their leadership, and a party that is
8:31pm
divided itself has difficulty working with the president or working with us. and that's unfortunate. and the country is the poorer for it. and the image of america is poorer for it. and i would hope that if they cannot get the votes or even if they can get the votes and the bill fails in the senate that our republican colleagues will sit down at the table with us and reach agreement, not walk away but reach agreement. >> can john boehner survive if -- as speaker if he's not able to get this passed? if he's not able to get his member on board? >> i don't know the answer to that, anderson. but the question is not whether john boehner can survive or whether steny hoyer can survive. the issue is will the best interest of america survive? will we have the courage to act responsibly so that america is and is perceived by the rest of the world as the leader they thought it was and want it to be. >> congressman hoyer, appreciate your time on a busy night. thank you. up next, how the white house
8:32pm
is reacting to what's going on just up the avenue and congressman joe walsh one of the no votes tonight on speaker boehner's bill. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back.
8:33pm
right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the cc. and every volkswagen includes scheduled carefree maintenance. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the volkswagen cc sport for just $289 a month. ♪ visit vwdealer.com today. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me
8:34pm
so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there every step of the way. call or come in and talk with us today.
8:35pm
congressman joe walsh of illinois, a house freshman, tea party favorite has been a loud voice in the rebellion that speaker boehner has been trying to tame. he joins me now. what do you make of it? no vote tonight? is that good news for you? >> anderson, i take a contrarian view. i think this entire debate is
8:36pm
good. the speaker is doing a great job trying to advocate for a plan. and the lobbying that they've been doing with each one of us has been very respectful. my colleague steny hoyer who was on before, anderson, i think he kept referring to us republicans as the party of no. i don't get that. the republicans a week ago passed the only plan right now that's been passed out of a body of congress up here. look, i've been pretty clear on how i feel about this president. i think one of the major reasonses why we're here in the 11th hour is because this guy has not led at all. the senate democrats haven't done anything. you may not like what the republicans have done, but they're the only folks in town who have been trying to deal with this debt ceiling issue. >> what would it take for you to support a boehner plan? how would his plan have to change? >> i think for a lot of us, anderson -- and again, it's a great first step. but for a lot of us it's going to take systemic reform that
8:37pm
makes sure we never get here again. one of your prior guests said this isn't the old days anymore. this isn't the old days. i mean, step back for one minute and imagine how life would be different if these republicans hadn't come to congress this year. we would have raised the debt ceiling three, four, five, six, who knows how many trillion? we'd still be spending money like there's no tomorrow. thank god the republicans came here and have changed the conversation. >> you're saying systemic reform. what exactly does that mean? >> that means, anderson, that means the only way we are going to get this town to change the way they spend money is bypassing a balanced budget amendment. by forcing both houses every year to balance their books. it's part of cut, cap and balance again that the house passed with 234 votes last week. >> and is a potential default next week acceptable to you? >> i don't buy this notion of default.
8:38pm
to me that's a false choice. default means you can't service your debt. you can't pay off your debt, anderson. and there's revenues to do that. one of the things that's been harmful in this debate is there's been this obsession with august 2nd. august 2nd. we need to get this right. we need a balanced budget amendment. if it takes us a few days more to make sure we get it right, let's do it. >> and if moody's or others downgrade u.s. credit rating? >> well, a downgrade's serious, anderson. and what the folks at moody's and standard & poors told us last week is, you may get downgraded even if you raise the debt ceiling. if you raise this debt ceiling and don't get serious about spending, in all likelihood you will get downgraded. cut, cap and balance met the credit agency's criteria to avoid a downgrade. >> congressman joe walsh, i an appreciate you sticking around for us tonight. a lot to talk about still.
8:39pm
we're going to be live in the 11:00 hour to continue with this breaking news. no vote tonight, a very tense night on capitol hill. and at the white house. more details ahead. and today, we're re-inventing aspirin for pain relief. with new extra-strength bayer advanced aspirin. it has microparticles so it enters the bloodstream faster and rushes relief right to the site of your tough pain. ♪ in fact, it's clinically proven to relieve pain twice as fast. new bayer advanced aspirin. extra strength pain relief, twice as fast.
8:40pm
but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ look at that car, well, it goes fast ♪ ♪ givin' my dad a heart attack ♪ [ friend ] that is so awesome. ♪ i love my car [ engine revving ] [ male announcer ] that first chevy, yea,
8:41pm
it gets under your skin. ♪ but i did. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch ha ha! millions of hits! [ male announcer ] flick, stack,
8:42pm
and move between active apps seamlessly. only on the new hp touchpad with webos. now to breaking news. no votes in house speaker john boehner's debt plan. he doesn't have enough gop support. the vote put on hold yet again. joining us jessica yellin and jeffrey toobin. jessica our previous guest was
8:43pm
talking about a meeting at the white house i think on sunday that she said was harry reid and nancy pelosi who came up with a plan and the president passed on it. is that true? >> reporter: well, the president was willing to make some -- the president was willing to move forward on certain plans. but there was a lot of -- they needed agreement with the republicans in order to go forward. and the fundamental breakdown was that they didn't have that agreement. there's a lot of backward looking we could do at this point, anderson. but the bottom line is, right now at the white house there's enormous frustration. because what they're looking at is the clock ticking and the fact that speaker boehner has a bill that in their view couldn't get any democratic votes, couldn't get through the senate. and he couldn't get republicans at this point to even sign onto the bill. so why are they in their view wasting all this time still on a bill that was just going to get republican support? the question now is what does the president do? what's the president's next
8:44pm
move? will he call a meeting of leaders? how involved does he get? my information from sources at this point is he has not planned to call leaders, he has not called leaders to the white house yet for any meetings in the coming days. that could change. when he was in the middle of things it didn't get a deal done so he took a different tact, let the house and senate try to do it on their own. maybe he'll get more involved tomorrow. we'll have to wait and see. he's been monitoring events from the residence. >> jeff toobin joins us as well. >> one of the things that's so interesting about what's happening now is how much our whole political dialogue has moved to the right since the 2010 elections. i mean, when president obama gave his speech he said, i want a balanced approach. i want some revenues and some budget cuts. well, the revenues are gone. there are no more tax increases in the boehner plan, there are no more tax increases until the reid plan. so even that is not conservative enough for the house republicans. so what makes this so perilous
8:45pm
is that the republicans can't even coalesce on a plan that clearly has no chance of passing the senate or getting approved by president obama. so you think, how does this get solved when even boehner's plan failed, when clearly reid's plan or anything that comes out of the senate is going to be to the left of what boehner's plan failed at today. >> there are a number of republicans who have been concerned that they're being set up to take the blame for whatever eventually happens. >> well, you know, maybe that's because they deserve the blame. i mean, you've got to pass something. and john boehner with great fanfare said, we're going to pass something today. well, they couldn't get anything done. i mean, whatever you think of our president obama is that he can't sign something that hasn't been passed boy congress. and neither the house nor the senate at this point has any plan that is it seems three days away remotely likely to get to
8:46pm
his desk. and as jessica said, he's frustrated but ultimately this is congress's job to try to get something passed. >> and jessica, tomorrow morning what happen? do we know? at the white house? >> reporter: well, tomorrow morning first of all they're watching the markets. who knows how the markets are going to react to this? part of what the downgrade potential is about is the inability for washington to function. so the markets could go haywire simply over this. so there's some anxiety about that. i wouldn't be surprised if we do see the president come out and make some kind of statement. they're not advising that but i wouldn't be surprised. and we could see the president call people back to the white house for another meeting and try to knock heads or try to forge a compromise. who knows what the path forward will be? the big question is, will the u.s. senate try to break off and just go on its own? until now harry reid, the democratic leader, has waited for speaker boehner to sort of get his vote over with and then he can proceed on his own. but maybe at this point, who knows, maybe senator reid will say, you know what?
8:47pm
enough. i'm going to go on my own and stop waiting. >> jessica yellin at the white house, jeff toobin as well. thanks. we're going to continue to follow the breaking news, live into our 11:00 hour. . a bizarre day in the child sexual assault trial of warren jeffs, the leader of that polygamous sect and a private army awol in texas arrested, police say he was found with a stash of weapons and planning to use them again u.s. troops. ...was it something big? ...or something small? ...something old? ...or something new? ...or maybe, just maybe... it's something you haven't seen yet. the 2nd generation of intel core processors. stunning visuals, intelligent performance. this is visibly smart.
8:48pm
toi switched to a complete0, multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage has ginkgo for memory and concentration, plus support for bone and breast health. a great addition to my routine. [ female announcer ] one a day women's.
8:49pm
8:50pm
8:51pm
let's check in some other stories we're following, tom foreman. >> reporter: texas police say a muslim american army private planned to attack fellow soldiers at fort hood. 21-year-old nasser abdo was arrested after a gun shop tipped off police he looked suspicious and purchased a lot of ammunition. he was awol from fort campbell, kentucky. police believe he was acting alone. tomorrow in norway police will interview anders breivik for the second time. inside a texas courtroom today, warren jeffs fired his defense team and opted to represent himself in his child sexual assault trial. but when it was time for him to present his opening statement he refused. jeffs issed leader of a mormon fundamental sect. the trufsee tried to get money from bernie madoff ponzi
8:52pm
scheme -- tremont group holdings has agreed to pay $1 billion to the victim's compensation fund. speaking of money, someone offer add bid for nearly $1 million to buy this rubber rendering of casey anthony's face. the mask was auctioned on e-bay. now we'll see if they actually come through with the money. >> i don't understand that at all. why would someone do that? >> i don't know. it doesn't make any sense. up next, perry's principles. college rankings, do they do more harm than good? both sides of that debate when we continue.
8:53pm
8:54pm
naturals from delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life.
8:55pm
this past year alone there was a 93% increase in cyber attacks. in financial transactions... on devices... in social interactions... and applications in the cloud. some companies are worried. some, not so much. thanks to a network that secures it all
8:56pm
and knows what to keep in, and what to keep out. outsmart the threats. see how at cisco.com cisco. where to attend college one of the most important decisions in a student's life. a lot of families turn to u.s. news and world report's college rankings. what makes them the best? school principal steve perry tells us how the rankings are created and he talks to someone who thinks they're hurting higher education. >> rankings doesn't really matter as much to me. >> i find them generally to be pretty accurate. >> what is your issue with the rankings?
8:57pm
>> they are put together to sell magazines, not to improve education. >> how could you say that? they're based upon what? >> the process of college add missions has been commercialized to the nth degree. >> lloyd backer leads the education conservancy. they say the rankings have become a beauty pageant where some students feel pressured to choose their college based off numbers instead of their own values. >> there's a group called education conservancy? >> they don't like the rankings? >> they think it's a crock. >> it's true the rankings have become a big brand for u.s. news. but they've become a brand because there is a void of information. we sort of made many, many schools -- people more aware that there's a lot of schools out there in all shapes and sizes. >> according to robert morse, the rankings are fair because they're based on a combination of reputation, graduation rates, faculty resources and endowments among other things. and he says they should be just one of the many factors students consider before deciding on a
8:58pm
school. we hit the streets to find out what students thought, the results were mixed. >> there's always that, don't know, strive to get into the school that's ranked one higher than the next. >> i think in my opinion it's kind of stupid, yeah. it is. because it shouldn't be that way. >> the college ranking might easily sway a college student to choose one school over another. >> biassed. yeah, a little bit biassed, tainted, kind of stereotypical. but important. >> we believe that we're producing something for consumers, that's our main mission. i don't think it's this pivotal force in admissions even though it's a factor. >> what it does is it turns students into customers, education into product, and gaining admission to the most selective college a prize that must be won. >> steve, obviously parents and student have a lot to consider before picking the right college. what's the best way to go about it? >> this is a tough time,
8:59pm
anderson. because economically parents want to know what's the best place to spend their money. and they don't know which school is best because they believe reputation goes a long way. so i do believe that u.s. news and world report can provide a guide but shouldn't be seen as the only method of making a decision, especially if you've never been to college. it's a good thing to just take a look at it and get a sense for what values you feel you're going to get. but ultimately you got to go visit the school. you got to make the decision based upon what feels right for your child on campus. >> even if a school isn't on top of some list somewhere, if you make the most of it, if you excel at that school, that's better than doing terribly at some school that does have a higher ranking. i mean, college is kind of what you make of it. >> it's more than kind of what you make of it. it's exactly what you make of it. there are great students from every school from community colleges to online colleges to ivy league schools. and we find that when children decide to go to a school where there's a good fit,

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)